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Base Saiyans surpassing 100% Frieza ?
Topic Started: Jun 6 2012, 01:53 PM (14,209 Views)
Selsiuss
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Weskur
Jun 14 2012, 11:12 PM
Selsiuss
Jun 14 2012, 09:58 PM
Weskur
Jun 14 2012, 08:08 PM
I provided what I believe is evidence of limits.
What you believe, but not what's true.
Ok, I provided evidence that prove there is a limit one cannot surpass in DBZ. I wrote them down and no body tried to debunk them.
(I thought I gave my shot at debunking them...) I forgot exactly what you posted. Can you post your evidence for permanent limits again?
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NavonWise
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Ninjajp247
Jun 14 2012, 10:09 PM
Why Pyrus? whats wrong with my definition of Full power super saiyan?

Goku proved it true.

Vegeta couldnt.

Yet MSSj is the form that encompasses ALL the power of a Super saiyan. Filler goku said this in the rosat.

Thus the NEED for MSSJ, to fight cell, and not as a USSJ which was gokus only hope.

Lucky for him cell wanted to know who the better fighter was, and conceded to goku after their match.

USSj goku was almost as strong as MSSJ gohan at full power. As compared to gokus estimate of full power cell.

Thats my estimate anyways, as the bottom of cells true power shocked even goku when cell powered up to the MaX.

FP perfect cell> estimated perfect cell=MSSJ gohan= USSJ goku>>suppressed cell=MSSJ goku

MSSJ does not equal or is not more powerful than USSJ. MSSJ is not an upgrade, its the same old SSJ form just better because you can now utilize all of your ki on attacks instead of having most of your ki maintaining the SSJ state. Let's say with the old SSJ Goku used 60% of his ki maintaining the state and used 40% on attacks, durability, etc. Once he got used to SSJ, he was able to use 100% of his ki on attacks, etc. So he has the same amount of ki he had before, he's just able to use more of it than before. ASSJ and USSJ is too heavy on the body, has more power, yes, but waists ki faster, and your slower.
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NavonWise
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Selsiuss
Jun 14 2012, 11:18 PM
Weskur
Jun 14 2012, 11:12 PM
Selsiuss
Jun 14 2012, 09:58 PM
Weskur
Jun 14 2012, 08:08 PM
I provided what I believe is evidence of limits.
What you believe, but not what's true.
Ok, I provided evidence that prove there is a limit one cannot surpass in DBZ. I wrote them down and no body tried to debunk them.
(I thought I gave my shot at debunking them...) I forgot exactly what you posted. Can you post your evidence for permanent limits again?
It's all in page 19, you replied but I responded and you never replied back.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8362452/19/
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Selsiuss
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Weskur
 
It's all in page 19, you replied but I responded and you never replied back.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8362452/19/
I'll be sure to address your claims in a new thread. This isn't the place to debate those. We've gone too far off track of discussing Base Saiyans surpassing 100% Freeza, so I'll address permanent limits and power differences in super saiyan forms in other threads. See you then.
Edited by Selsiuss, Jun 14 2012, 11:54 PM.
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NavonWise
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Yeah lol we got too into this debate we got off track of the original..
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Paikuan extreme
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Selsiuss
Jun 14 2012, 10:36 PM
Ninjajp247
 
Why Pyrus? whats wrong with my definition of Full power super saiyan?

Goku proved it true.

Vegeta couldnt.

Yet MSSj is the form that encompasses ALL the power of a Super saiyan. Filler goku said this in the rosat.


FILLER... IS... NOT... CANON...

Ninjajp247
 
Thus the NEED for MSSJ, to fight cell, and not as a USSJ which was gokus only hope.

Lucky for him cell wanted to know who the better fighter was, and conceded to goku after their match.

USSj goku was almost as strong as MSSJ gohan at full power. As compared to gokus estimate of full power cell.

There is no statement regarding how strong Ultra Ssj Goku is compared to Gohan after he finished training. Gohan believed Goku could beat Cell, but Goku said the powerful, bulky form is not the way to go.

Ninjajp247
 
Thats my estimate anyways, as the bottom of cells true power shocked even goku when cell powered up to the MaX.

FP perfect cell> estimated perfect cell=MSSJ gohan= USSJ goku>>suppressed cell=MSSJ goku


The Point of mastering the normal Ssj form was to make it more efficient, not more powerful. I will make a new thread analyzing Ssj vs Ascended, Ultra, and Mastered Ssj. Since this topic is about Freeza, and we've steered far from that, I think it's time to take this discussion elsewhere.
let pyrus answer the question, i posed it to him so he should answer.

By the way. telling me filler isnt canon doesnt...mean ....crap to me.

anyways, you proved my point by needlessly repeating what i said.

If you were trying to make it look like i took gokus comment out of context? you failed.

Like i said, it was an example. <_<

full power super saiyan, is MSSJ, period.

Goku can go full power SSJ without bulking up and leave the rest of his power for a kame blast or ki powered technique.

saying it was made for efficiency is hacking at words, playing semantics.

In truth goku was referring to the form itself and how at full power he bulks up like that.

Goku couldnt use the form, so whats your point?

Gohan telling goku WOW dad you can beat cell, i KNOW you can.

the the whole time gohan has goku under his thumb, and goku knew it.

yet goku tells him that he cant fight cell like that.

So yeah, Cells estimated true strength also reflects on frieza As goku and kaioshin were discussing how both of them were garbage compared to the saiyans now.

so while youre trying to be a backseat mod? why dont you add to the thread then instead of commenting and answering questions NOT posed to you?
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Paikuan extreme
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so youre wrong weskur, full power SSJ, is MSSj, which reduces the ki strain because he CANT use it all physically, only through ki based attacks and techniques.

Gokus USSJ power IS super saiyan, its a KI weighting technique to increase strength, it bulks up EVERYONE, goku got the technique from roshi.

Broly himself is the legendary super saiyan, He ki weights in order to get stronger, but doesnt run out of energy.

Goku does.

So in USSJ goku suffers from bulkiness and ki drain from using it all to become physically strong.

Just like ichigo did on bleach to fight aizen.

Just like frieza did to fight goku at full power, he bulked up too.

so no. Goku is at full power in USSJ, they all are. To the max. Thats the reason for ki strain.

Goku uses the leftover energy and applies it. making it PLENTY able for him to store energy.

Goku PHYSICALLY was as strong as cell in USSJ, but he wasted everything else doing it. Thats the point of MSSJ, and it didnt even matter in the end.





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Selsiuss
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If ki weighting bulks everyone up, and Goku is not bulky as a MSsj, then that means he is not ki weighting, and thus his raw power does not exceed normal Ssj.
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Copy_Ninja
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I think this topic has ran its course, it's not even really about what the OP mentioned anymore. If you want to continue any of these arguments, then its probably best making another thread.
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Copy_Ninja
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Novacane for the pain

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